Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Question on canning apple pie filling for Mrs. Tn Andy.

My daughters have done about 100 quarts of your apple pie filling recipe. It's terrific. But we are having problems with sealed jars popping open. These jars lost some of their liquid and aren't full to the top. They were definitely sealed, but after sitting on the shelf a couple of days they are popping open. Why??

We had trouble with jars not sealing from blowing too much liquid out in the canning process, and we used those up right away, but it is very discouraging to have sealed jars pop open in storage. We'd be very thankful for any advice.

Thanks,
Farmgal

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

100 quarts!

I wish I could prep like some of ya'll do!

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

My experience in canning is that you don't want the jars full.

Leave 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch of space. The air is required to get a good seal.

If lots of the jars are having this problem I would dump out the pie filling, reheat it and process it again. [re-can]

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

We did leave 1" headspace when filling the jars, but the pie filling expanded some during canning.

The pie filling isn't moldy or anything, but we are concerned about using it after it sits open on the shelf.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Some ideas:

1. May not be processing it long enough, and you're getting some fermentation ( smell anything the least bit odd ? ), building up CO2, and popping the lids.

2. Bad lids. How old are they ? And did you boil them in water just prior to putting on the jars ? That helps soften the rubber sealing ring as well as sterilize.

3. Head space not enough, but you covered that I think.

4. Wipe around the jar top where the sealing point is after you fill them, but right before you put the lid on. We use a "jar funnel" to fill our jars, but still manage to get some of the contents on the seal point, so I try to wipe them off, unlike my "less picky" husband who just slaps the lid on and puts them in the canner. :D

5. I probably would NOT re-process or use them, as food poisoning is not a fun thing and just not worth a jar of food.


I assume you took the rings off after the jars cooled ? ( Like the next day, not too early ) Are you SURE the jars were sealed at that point ? ( The lid concaved downward )

Hope this helps.

MrsTnAndy

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Thank you for your help Mrs. Tn Andy.

You've given us a couple of points we will pay more attention to - making sure the lids are boiling. That could be an issue. Also, I've heard a bit lately about canners today not being deep enough to get adequate depth of boiling water over the jars. As some jars are taller than others, maybe that is a problem we need to watch also.

Our biggest issue seems to be the liquid spurting out of the jar after removal from the canner. Even though we left a one inch head space, most jars look full to the top after canning. The ones coming open have room at the top of the jar because of escaping liquid. I try to improve that problem by leaving the jars in the canner for a little bit after canning so the contents isn't boiling when I remove the jars.

I am sure the jars were sealed, because the next day I remove the rings and wash the jars in hot soapy water before putting them away.

Thanks for your help. It's hard to find expert canners around to ask for advice. Have a great weekend.

Farmgal

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Hey Farmgal.....when you say the "Our biggest issue seems to be the liquid spurting out of the jar after removal from the canner", is this a water bath or pressure canner you're doing ?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

We were using the water bath canner for the apple pie filling.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

MrsTn...Andy, You and Farmgal have both recomended removing the rings. Why is it a bad idea to store with the rings on?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Most jars leak a little when you can.....if you leave the ring on, it tends to "cement" to the threads on the jar and makes it REALLY hard to get off down the road. We take the rings off and wash the sealed jars in the sink to clean off any leakage before they go into storage.


Also, I find they tend to rust as well if left on the jars. So we take them off, wash the rings as well, and store them separately. The rings can be re-used time after time, just buying new lids, so I don't like to see them damaged with rust.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I've never notice the contents of our jars boiling when using water bath.....pressure canning, yes....sometimes when I take the jars out, the contents are bubbling away in the jar.....but that's because you've raised the temperature to 230-245 in the pressure process.....water bath is never gonna hit over 212 ( less if you're at much altitude ).

I'm leaning towards bad batch of lids, personally. If you water bathed them anytime at all, it 'should' have killed off any wild yeast that could have caused fermentation.

Could just be one of those life mysteries.....ahahahahaaa

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Wouldn't cold non-soapy water be better the next day?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

You could do that.....as long as you followed it up with a hot, soapy wash that actually worked.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Whatever sticky syrup or food might be stuck to the outside of the jar washes off easier in hot soapy water. I like my jars of food looking all clean and sparkly on the shelf.

When I first started canning, I would just take my dishrag and wipe off the jars. When I found mold growing around the necks of my jars, I realized that wasn't thorough enough. The food inside the jar was fine. It was the jelly or syrup that was stuck in the grooves on the outside of the jar that was moldy. Definitely unappetizing.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I had similar problems with my jams several years ago.

Pretty much what Mr. A said. Bad lids turned out to be our problem.

But all of the advice given here is valid.

About the only way I've found to completely resolve this came from my grandmother, who got it from her mom.

She used wax as a layer to actually 'seal' the item being sealed in the can, then put the lid on and did the water bath or pressure seal. The best part is, when you open the jar, you mainly just pop the 1" layer of wax off and then you can reheat and reuse it. IF you want to.

And yeah, HOT SOAPY WATER.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

My wife says we need to get a Pressure cooker to do canning.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...160_AA115_.jpg
Is she right?
I don't know (and haven't read) anything about this stuff...But I wanna learn

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I'm no canner, but is it possible the heat of the "hot soapy wash" is also expanding the newly canned product, allowing the container to lose it's vacuum, or even creating a bit of pressure, allowing the lid to release. Also do you have to have a certain "dwell time" in the boiling water to get a kill on the natural yeasts and bacteria in the fruit mixture. Seems it would take some time for the heat (in the double boiler waterbath) to reach the core of the product, thus not reaching the pasturization temp.

Just my wild thoughts

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Is there one Canning/Preservation book you would recommend over the others?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Depends.....water bath, which is basically just an open pot of water deep enough to cover whatever size jar you are using ( pints/quarts ) ( but DO use a rack in the bottom so the jar doesn't sit in direct contact with the pot bottom, and thus possibly crack from the heat ) that you can use to do the following types of foods:

A. High acid foods like SOME tomatoes, but not all....some have the acid bred out of them, and are NOT safe to water bath. You can add vinegar or ascorbic acid to some foods to help raise the acid content and make them safe to water bath, but it's sorta "iffy" in my book.

B. High sugar content foods, like jams/jelly, fruits put up in a medium or heavy sugar ( m = 1c sugar to 2 cups water H= 1c sugar to 1 cup water ) as the sugar is helps do the preserving.

All other foods and ESPECIALLY anything with meat should be pressure canned.

Canning under pressure raises the temperature at which the food is process from 212 of a water bath ( max ) to 230-245 in a pressure canner ( the higher the pressure, the higher the temp )

The best book to get as a "primer" on canning is the Ball Blue Book of Home Canning.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

My wife won't let us get a pressure cooker for canning, she wants no part of it :(

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

This seems to be comprehensive.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Yet she will drive around in a car with gasoline and each gallon of it has the explosive power of about 6 sticks of dynamite...heck, the CAR itself.....she know that 50,000 people die every year in them ? I doubt anyone died of a pressure canner last year....

And you probably have a potential bomb in the house if you have a water heater that the thermostat and pressure relief valve fail.....cook or heat with natural gas or propane.....you don't even want to KNOW the explosive potential of what you have there.....Amazing how silly people are.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Not trying to hi-jack this thread... but please see attached pictures.

I've been pickling okra and I always leave 1/2" headspace and when it's done, there's about an inch and a half.

Is that safe? I've heard air is a problem. Will it be OK?

Used a pressure canner.

Thanks, SilverJeep

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I have this book and can by its instructions. Haven't had a failure yet (that I followed instructions on, anyway)

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I just canned 6 quarts of Tomato Sauce in a pressure canner.

None of the sealed...some even opened up and the whole inside of the canner was covered in sauce. Any ideas why all this happened?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

SJ: The air is no problem assuming you processed it the recommended time and the lids sealed. Normal to have some air at the top. You got more air than the 1/2" you started with most likely because of the air inside the okra would be my guess. I assume you "raw packed" them, meaning you put uncooked okra right in the jar, and added water....the canning process would force that water inside and push the air out, giving you the extra air. I wouldn't worry about it. Great pics by the way !

Heimdhal: You didn't leave enough head space....air ( like SJ left above ) will compress under pressure....liquid/solids won't....so the seal HAS to give.

OR you opened the canner before it had time to cool to the point of zero pressure, and/or took the weight off to relieve pressure.....that will do exactly what you describe.....can't rush it or the contents of the jar, which are under pressure from the heat, will blow all over the inside of the canner......and often break the jars from the stress of instant decompression.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

The air is no problem assuming you processed it the recommended time and the lids sealed.
YES.

You got more air than the 1/2" you started with most likely because of the air inside the okra would be my guess. I assume you "raw packed" them, meaning you put uncooked okra right in the jar, and added water....the canning process would force that water inside and push the air out, giving you the extra air.
YES, I DID "RAW PACK" THEM. THAT MAKES SENSE, ALTHOUGH THEY STILL FLOAT A LOT.

I wouldn't worry about it. Great pics by the way !
THANKS, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WOULDN'T KILL MY FAMILY DUE TO MY INCOMPETENCE.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

The one on the left is what some of the amish are using. Maybe she would like one of these. Makes hot water for laundry, makes a great corn blancher and a canner for up to 32 qts. I'd imagine it would cook clams and lobster pretty well also. They are wood fired or I've seen them with a propane unit.
http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...CT&itemID=2019

There is also one from an outfit in Michigan.
http://www.tradad.com/venkov/pressure_cooker.htm

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Ty for the info. I did take the weight off prematurley. Not vastly prematurley but apparently enough. So I should leave the weight on until the absolute second the canner is ready to be opened?

How long do you think the unsealed sauce will last in the fridge? It has sausage in it :(

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Probably a week or so in the fridge. You could just reprocess it.

Removing the weight is a no-no.....if you lift it and any pressure comes off, you risk having happen what happened. I assume your canner has no pressure gauge, weight only ?

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

The Ball Blue Book is very good.


Sorry Andy, did not see you had recoed this one already later in the thread.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

My wifes mother used to do canning when my wife was a girl. She has bad memories of having to help.

Now she is busy working and raising our kids (hey, I work and help out around the house too, especially doing dishes and this weekend I even cleaned the bathrooms!) for which she has more responsibility than I. So she sees my interest in canning as an unnecessary hobby that will end up making more work for her.

For now I'm happy to be doing some food preps and using our vacuum sealer and oxygen absorbers to store dry goods. I'm trying to get her to help me come up with a list of canned goods I can start buying, if I just start getting things I want I'll be being selfish. Hopefully I'll get some input from her and be able to start stocking up on these this weekend.

As for the pressure cooker, well we don't grow any of our own food so there's no good reason for us to have one. It's just I see how much some on here are able to do and it makes me want to do more.

Eventually...

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

Yeah, just a weight only. Thanks for the help. Ill reprocess the sauce but I wont be able to get to it for a few days so I just wanted to make sure

My wife feels the same. She sees my canning as uncessary because hey, we've got a publix down the road and the canning will just cause me to leave a mess for her to clean up. Some things she likes though, like the strawberry jam I make, but the fruit and veggies I pack she doesnt see much point behind.

Florida is easily effected by delayed shippments of things we dont produce here localy. During the hurricanes a few years back when we got hit by some major ones we had trouble getting some "staple" items. So I figure if TS doesnt HTF then at least well have something on hand for hurricane season.

Re: Question for Mrs. Tn Andy
 

I know I'm jumping in a bit late on this, I don't get a lot of time on the computer.

The lovely and talented Mrs Lt Dan used an open kettle canner back in the early years of our marriage. She had a lot of problems with her jars not staying sealed. Some of this might have been from inexperience, but since my mom had only ever used that method, she helped clear up that issue. What Mrs lt Dan said and I agreed with is, head space and time and possible trying to speed the process by boiling on high. Are you sure you're leaving then in the process long enough?

To answer WilliamC; My wife begged me for a pressure canner once we started living where we gardened. There are some safety issues with a pressure canner. Don't allow the pressure to get too high or low, make sure you pay attention to how long you process, etc. Such as, if the book says 10 minutes at 5psi, don't exceed either by much, just don't try to do it at say 15 minutes at 3psi. All the things about keep it clean are also important to the process, most of all that is already covered. However, just as Tn_Andy pointed out there are much more dangerous thing we do every day that could kill us than using a pressure canner in the house. There are safety devices on any of the modern canners that make them a very safe, time saving and effective tool for the home canner.